So, have we watched everything up to this point from the perspective of He Who Remains?

Commentaires

A_Serious_House2025-10-16 18:40

No, it’s all from the perspective of Loki, we just didn’t see all of the time he spent going back again and again and again.

ZealousidealEbb40712025-10-16 19:31

We’re watching it from the perspective of the fly on the wall that sometimes doesn’t understand what’s happening until it does. And sometimes doesn’t.

A_Serious_House2025-10-16 19:43

That’s not true, this scene and most of the show are undeniably from Loki’s perspective. If the audience was truly a fly on the wall, we would have seen a very different depiction of the scene as we needed Loki’s perspective for a fully understanding of the scene even if there was deliberate misdirection or twists.

ZealousidealEbb40712025-10-16 19:57

Okay.

A_Serious_House2025-10-16 20:01

Not trying to be confrontational, I’m sorry. I understood where you were coming from but it was technically from Loki’s perspective, although I dislike being that “Actually!” Guy

ZealousidealEbb40712025-10-16 20:05

Story is from Loki’s perspective. But we’re watching it is called “fly on the wall”. That’s it. Plus my sentence was like fun thing to say, nothing more. Take care!

Stevenwave2025-10-16 21:45

Yes exactly, the story is presented from Loki's perspective, so how can it be fly on the wall too? If it were the latter, we'd be just as privy to all of the major players and their goings on, but we're not, we're following Loki's experience of it.

bennet992025-10-17 22:04

Why does this read like it’s written by Douglas Adams?

Agent_00_Negative2025-10-16 19:40

He Who Remains... I've come to bargain!!

Muted_Resolve_62512025-10-16 22:24

Actually, every argument here makes sense.

Anyway, it's a great scene.

A_Serious_House2025-10-16 22:30

Lol, it’s not really an argument, the scene is undeniably from Loki’s perspective. It’s his show.

StanyeEast2025-10-19 03:09

No, it's all from the perspective of The Watcher, we just didn't see all of the time he spent looking at all the banging again and again and again.

chu_chumba2025-10-16 19:00

No, by this point Loki was confident enough in his abilities to catch HWR off guard. It was indeed their first conversation, but Loki realized that HWR couldn't know that for sure, which meant HWR didn't have complete control over the situation.

Petrichor022025-10-16 19:04

I think you could argue it the other way, but this has been my interpretation as well. Well said.

JuniorEquipment36392025-10-16 20:57

I thought the point of the scene was that Loki knew he'd bring sylvie back, and usually Loki can't do anything to pause it but this time he has mastered his time stop ability and that's why he's able to change the direction of the conversation. From this point on, he's now in a conversation he's never had before.

Ooooooffffff_ff2025-10-17 03:27

Wait. From my perspective, Loki must have done this before. So what you are saying is, Loki was confident enough to call HWR's bluff? If that is how it was intended, then that is a brand new perspective for me!

Wooden_Passage_26122025-10-16 19:04

Wtygrrr2025-10-16 19:11

Bluffing. Or possibly just actually being direct and curious.

Arcturyte2025-10-16 20:09

Either way, Loki S2 was god tier

PhortDruid2025-10-16 20:13

Literally

MuffaloMan2025-10-16 20:22

![gif](giphy|Ivw3Gzk8EK495WrQmk)

HerrPizza2025-10-17 01:02

that agian

CaleBoi252025-10-17 13:20

Which agian? Is that a species?

Volitaire2025-10-17 16:01

no, what you said before when you

BriMaster90002025-10-17 19:46

No what you said before when you

MaderaWand9992025-10-18 03:14

NEVERMIND! I’ve got an idea.

OctavalBeast2025-10-17 00:10

Not really, first and last episode were great, everythingnin between was lazy filler. S1 was better imo

Swifty2552025-10-17 00:25

Some things should be kept to yourself bud

OctavalBeast2025-10-17 08:45

Like maybe your reply? Give me arguments against my claim if you wish, not this witty response. Cut out the episodes in the middle you can still have the same impact and not lose any plotline.

Arcturyte2025-10-17 11:17

I will argue that the struggles that they all went to contributes to the impact you see in e6. Without those in between episodes, it literally becomes a deux ex machina story. He becomes who he becomes of the experiences, efforts and failures in the middle episodes. They needed to exhaust all option of some magic bullet or a compromise. The end was still a deus ex machina but it was one that Loki purposefully (hah) walked towards.

Arcturyte2025-10-17 06:21

I respect your opinion but I disagree too

HereWeFuckingGooo2025-10-17 01:38

I just wish it had been more cohesive with season 1. With Kate Herron and Michael Waldron stepping back it felt like a different show altogether.

CFL_lightbulb2025-10-17 14:46

I wasn’t the biggest fan of S1, but S2 was incredible.

MirkwoodWanderer12025-10-17 14:41

I think it dropped the ball on a couple points like Sylvies character and poor explanation of universe vs timelines and lokis powers. Especially at the end where people are acting he is basically God and can do anything despite no conformation about this.

Still enjoyed it but people overhyping it in my opinion makes me like it less as I feel I'm missing something.

Freako042025-10-18 04:09

The initial 2-3 episodes were so rushed, it felt like I skipped some episodes in between. Yet I cannot deny that the finale was powerful enough to leave an impact.

Tiny_Professor_34062025-10-19 19:14

We are going to have wanda/MOM effect 100% with him were ppl build a different scenario where this going , in reality he is just powering the timeline and can’t alternate reality

No_Key89812025-10-18 04:14

I came here to say this but also to say he who remains was borderline clunky as a plot device.

Jarita122025-10-16 20:14

It is from Loki´s point of view, we are going through the various jumps with him.

Either way, this is an awesome ability which we barely saw and I hope Russos are not going to nerf Loki to the point where he will just take a knife to the battle (again)

tiggoftigg2025-10-16 20:31

I hope they do! Or at least down cuff him with regards to his slipping ability. That’s way too OP.

Demileto2025-10-16 21:00

More OP than Doom, a mere human whose genius recurrently put even cosmic beings on their knees?

tiggoftigg2025-10-16 21:43

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

It’s too OP a power to really make interesting. It worked well in Loki because it directly tied into exactly what the show was about.

Either it’s too OP and has to be limited right away. Or it becomes a Doom vs Loki time slipping movie.

Unless I’m misremembering, there’s no limit to his time slipping abilities, right?

Also, do you really want another time travel movie?

Holiday-Hippo-67482025-10-16 21:47

> Also, do you really want another time travel movie?

It’s going to be in *some* regard. You can’t have incursions and a reboot in Secret Wars without time travel or some great reset event; odds are Doom creates Battleworld, it’ll get undone somehow

tiggoftigg2025-10-16 21:59

Okay. I agree.

I still find it amusing people are fine with a hero being able to time travel at will. There are plenty of people way cleverer than me but I find it difficult to imagine how Loki having unfettered time slipping abilities will be interesting.

But I look forward to whatever they decide.

Holiday-Hippo-67482025-10-16 22:02

Probably similar to how they’ll show Doom is the new big bad, just have him kill Thanos; just have Doom time slip lol (I don’t really know, but it wouldn’t surprise me)

Demileto2025-10-16 23:21

My point is that even if Loki tried using that slip ability in Doomsday the movie will show that Doom will have been prepared for it and use science fiction tech to prevent Loki from doing it.

tiggoftigg2025-10-17 00:38

So you’re saying limit his ability? Why didn’t I think of that. Silly me to suggest they cuff or nerf his time slipping ability instead of…limiting it.

Doom could also use magic. Or there could be something about incursions that make interfere with his ability to get a lock on time and space.

Demileto2025-10-17 00:52

>So you’re saying limit his ability? Why didn’t I think of that.

Then why are you worrying? Abilities like Loki's time slipping are only ever as overpowered as the plot demands it and nothing screams more comic book than writers going to great lengths, to the point of pulling even the most stupid rationales out of their asses, for the sake of nerfing them. See: Magneto vs Dr Doom or Iron Man.

tiggoftigg2025-10-17 00:56

I never said I was worried. I was replying to someone saying they hope Loki isn’t nerfed. And I said I hope he is with regards to his time slipping.

Still not sure what you’re trying to nitpick or prove here.

SinginGidget2025-10-16 21:43

I think maybe Loki will be hampered by his position now, holding all the timelines. So he can't time slip the way he did before simply because he's preoccupied.

tiggoftigg2025-10-16 21:47

That’s what I’m guessing as well. We’ll see!

Jarita122025-10-17 10:34

I am talking about total nerfing like Russos did in IW (or even Taika in Ragnarok), where the guy is a powerful magic user and he is just waving knives there.

I think they are going to work with his new abilities (time slipping and time stopping) but since Loki is sitting on the throne, it can be limited or may not work when he is projecting himself. And maybe Doom will take "parts" of it, like that Loki may be then able to time slip only between certain parts....it does seem that they are going for a certain time loop thing or at least jump where Endgame ended so there will be some time travel for sure

strugglz2025-10-16 22:30

God of Stories Loki is just too powerful to be featured in the MCU anymore. Though he is his own limitation. He is the embodiment of "I can, but won't" at this point. Anything and everything is under his "control". Plus, if he's messing around on a timeline, who is holding them all together?

Ereska2025-10-16 23:59

Couldn't he just send a projection? Movie Loki did this all the time.

strugglz2025-10-17 00:41

In theory God of Stories Loki *could* write a version of himself onto a timeline, but at that point is that variant the same Loki? I would argue no.

Diff_equation52025-10-17 08:28

I think he’d just be Jesus at that point.

Ereska2025-10-17 09:58

I mean a projection of himself while he still sits on his throne without actually going anywhere. A "ghost" as Korg would say. He could still talk to people but would be limited in what else he can do.

TheObstruction2025-10-17 18:25

He's basically the god of time. He can be in multiple places simultaneously simply by going back (or forward) over and over again.

Single-Pianist-22112025-10-17 04:35

This is why it’s most logical to think that Doom will get Loki to surrender by threatening Thor

MirkwoodWanderer12025-10-17 14:38

Tbf we don't know if he has any powers anyway.

He could now just be a glorified battery without any control.

That's how I like to view it as otherwise imo it lessens series 2

Drumboardist2025-10-17 00:39

It's *literally* watching a TAS (tool-assisted speedrun), but without the hassle of seeing every single reset and frame-skip just to land the frame-perfect inputs. Loki went back in time *so, so many times* to achieve this "perfect run" that all we see is...this conversation. We do *not* see him trying and failing for hundreds of...what, hours, days, years?

Good stuff.

Powersoutdotcom2025-10-17 02:56

Centuries. OB

Mizerous2025-10-17 02:18

Doom kinda has to beat him to make Battleworld

Single-Pianist-22112025-10-17 04:36

That’s why I’m strongly predicting that Doom will get Loki to surrender (or abandon his throne) by threatening Thor

Jarita122025-10-17 10:14

He can do that without taking his powers or nerfing him. He could surrender the throne. I mean, if Doom would threaten he would kill someone, or destroy some reality or something, there is no reason for Loki to hold on. What is the point for him to stick on the throne when everyone who he is doing it for, are is dead

MirkwoodWanderer12025-10-17 14:35

I just wish they explained his powers. They just came out of nowhere like by the way, he's now the most powerful being alive and can powerful entire universes.

AsteroidMike2025-10-16 20:35

No, Loki is the main character and the whole thing is purely from his perspective. Remember that earlier in the episode, it explicitly says he spent centuries learning about time travel and understanding the Loom, in addition to finally controlling his time slipping ability, so it only makes sense that he learned to control time like that too.

Fickle_Penguin2025-10-18 05:19

It can always be a concise version for the audience and if the writers ever want to expand the scene they can. So you're right right now, but maybe not later.

TheJohn2952025-10-16 22:30

Is this a question of the timeline pre-multiverse? If so, then yes. The entirety of the infinity saga was as He Who Remains decreed it to be with the TVA removing all other budding timelines.

MirkwoodWanderer12025-10-17 14:36

Tbf multiverse always exist I think, it's just the mcu branch that's been isolated by HWR. Dr strange 2 would have been out of the remit of HWR.

patch_e_behr2025-10-16 23:04

He who is no longer in this franchise, am I right guys

DrMangosteen22025-10-17 01:12

He whose career no longer remains

academiac2025-10-18 12:56

Too soon

Ezequiel_Rose2025-10-18 14:38

He who doesn't remain

AcisConsepavole2025-10-19 05:01

Which is maybe unfortunate, because it turned out, seemingly, he's not an abuser, he just thinks he's a 1960s Civil Rights leader. The worst thing he ostensibly is is an activism cosplayer. He was originally ostracized for the abuse charges, but then everyone was either apathetic about him coming back after new information came up or the information just never came up for a lot of people. I say it's unfortunate because he is quite talented, and, well, we've seen guys like Mel Gibson and Louis CK come back from worse; if he's not an abuser and is just weird, then why does Jonathan Majors have to be the one who loses forever?

Zeerola2025-10-18 00:07

Was He-Who-Remains supposed to be Kang or just the same actor for some reason?

ThatFolk2025-10-18 01:31

The point of the show is him being a Kang variant trying to prevent the existence of other Kang's because they're guaranteed to start a multiversal war

Zeerola2025-10-18 01:34

Mission accomplished then...

Teganfff2025-10-18 07:21

I’m just choosing to ignore all that tbh.

AcisConsepavole2025-10-19 04:55

So, Time falls apart and Loki ascends to a throne that handles the timelines, awarding free will back to everyone across the Omni/multiverse. Because it all got unwound first, that could mean that it starts over again and catches up quickly while Loki is handling it. So, the entire time, everyone has free will retroactively, so He Who Remains only thinks he knows how it all ends and how it all came before; even he admits he doesn't know what will happen after the threshold is crossed right before Sylvie kills him. The finality so far is that Loki maintains free will for the characters, but after a point that HWR is aware of, and he can manipulate outcomes, but can't manipulate THE ultimate outcome.

HWR has had a hand in manipulating the sacred timeline up to a point, but, if it is ever not the only timeline, then he didn't really affect anyone -- they always had free will and the "Sacred Timeline" is just one of many where everyone did make choices, but it would have just been one of many choices and What Ifs. The one he wanted was just convenient, but he was never actually the finally "architect"; there was no architect, the characters metaphorically have willpower now.

I perceive HWR as a very Corporate way to tell stories, and Loki is all the choices that every writer can make for every character. I see it as, symbolically, Marvel is untethering itself from one absolute story, even though we will continue to see the story in that Sacred Timeline.